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Dialogues

Juliana Uruburu

Cheesemonger

    Juliana Uruburu loves cheese. She never tires of eating it, talking about it, judging it or promoting it, and she’s involved with it every day—tasting it, buying it, selling it and resetting it. A 21-year mainstay at Market Hall’s Pasta Shop where she ably manages the cheese program, Uruburu is an internationally known cheese expert plus a member of the elite French cheese society, Guilde des Fromagers de Saint-Uguzon. She teaches educational seminars, judges cheese competitions and searches the world over for great cheese—the stinkier the better.

What is it about cheese that makes it so irresistible?
    The fact that it’s never the same—that it’s always changing. It can be the same cheese from the same producer one week, and it can be completely different the next. The cheese and the milk, the flavors and the aromas, the textures can change seasonally. Cheese is a living thing.

Has cheese consumption in general changed?
    If you go back 30, 40 years, cheese was always used as an ingredient, but now cheese is intended to be eaten for what it is. I think the American palate is moving more toward the European fashion of eating—really eating something in its pure form for what it is.

These days with consumers so much more health conscious, how does eating cheese square with reducing dietary fats?
    Cheese is an amazing source of protein. It’s also a delicious food. We always encourage people to only purchase what they are going to use. Cheese is a perishable product, so buy what you need. Don’t buy in excess; don’t eat in excess.


How do you assess the quality of today’s cheese?
    What’s happening in the United States is that so many people are going abroad to learn the craft of making cheese, and then they’re coming back, but instead of repeating, say, a Gorgonzola specifically or a Parmigiano-Reggiano, they’re taking the tools of how to make cheese and they’re translating them into new cheeses. And so what we’re seeing are all these new varieties of cheese. And the quality is definitely going up.

So who makes the best cheese, Americans or Europeans?
    You can’t compare. There’s always one person that stands out. What it takes to be a good cheesemaker, or affineur, is intuition and a sense of place. There are so many factors that go into making the perfect cheese, from the type of animal to making the right kind of cheese with the milk.

Is there a quintessential California cheese?
    Is there a cheese made in California that is the epitome of California cheese? Of course. Humboldt Fog. Mary Keane, the owner of Cypress Grove, is an absolutely amazing woman. And she makes world-class cheeses. Everything they do is first-rate.

What’s your personal preference, sheep, cow or goat cheese?
    It depends on the weather. On a nice hot day, a fresh clean, tangy goat would be fantastic. On a cold rainy day, a real rich, sweet cow’s milk cheese. And then, right at sunset, with a nice glass of Rosé, a real kind of nutty, oily sheep’s milk cheese would be great.

Let’s talk about cheese plates—how many cheeses are enough, and are there basic rules to follow?
    It’s either three or five. It’s always odd numbers. But it’s sort of an unwritten rule. I like all the flavors to be of the same intensity—either really delicate, fresh and mild, or a little bit fuller, more aromatic. Make sure that all your flavors are in the same range so that one cheese doesn’t overwhelm another one.

What’s a nice plate you might recommend?
    A piece of Point Reyes Blue, Humboldt Fog and a Carmody Reserve would be beautiful. If you wanted to add two more, you could do a Mt. Tam from Cowgirl Creamery. And then something from Fiscalini, like their award-winning Lionza.

What else should be kept in mind for cheese-plate preparation?
    Fresher cheeses tend to pair better with fresh fruit and fresh produce—fresher flavors. Something that’s older and more aged and more complex pairs better with dried fruits, cured meats—bigger, broader flavors. Sugar and mold are a perfect pair. Honey, dried figs, any dried fruits. Sweeter wines. The classic pairings are Roquefort and Sauterne, Port and Stilton. There’s a reason for that: It softens the molds and showcases the sweet cream from the cheese.

What about a few wine-cheese pairing rules?
    Wine and cheese are not easy to pair. At all. Period. There are no givens. Younger, fresher, more vibrant cheeses pair well with crisper, brighter white wines. Champagne essentially goes with most cheeses. When you get into the red wines, you really need an older cheese that’s sort of complex and round where the acidity has softened but the depth and the flavor of the cheese has become more complex. Another rule of thumb is no mold with red wine, unless you have a really bold, assertive, spicy red wine and you’re pairing it with a spicy blue-mold cheese—that might be a perfect match.

Anything else?
    Don’t forget beer. There’s the never-ending debate: Beer or wine with cheese? All the incredible microbrews that are out now, these lagers, ales, stouts—they have just as many complexities as wine does now, so it’s not as simple. It’s a matter of understanding the component of the milk, where the acid is—simple with simple, more complex with complex.

Is there any cheese you won’t eat?
    I’m not a fan of cheese with fruit mixed into it, like Stilton with blueberries. You won’t find any flavor-added cheeses at my counter.

Do you have a cheese philosophy?
    It’s always my goal to sell cheese in its best condition with the cheesemaker in mind. Always. It always has to come back to the artist and the creator.

Do people make big mistakes when they buy cheese?
    There are no mistakes when people buy cheese, as long as they are buying the cheese and supporting the cheesemakers. You really should get to know whoever it is you’re buying cheese from. And since it is a perishable product, you should always taste what you’re buying. It should always be cut fresh.

What’s the best way to learn about cheese?
    I advise people to pick their favorite cheese and to buy it consistently from the same place for one year. Always ask questions. There are so many incredible books on cheese out there right now. There are so many farms especially here in California an hour to two hours away that you can go and visit. Definitely talking to your cheesemonger.
 

—By Judith M. Gallman
—Photography By Mitch Tobias